Tune in to “Military Tales” for a special evening with Brigadier General Jim McDivitt, one of America’s greats, who shares captivating stories from his extraordinary career. Starting as a fighter pilot flying F-80s and F-86s during the Korean War, enduring the extreme cold and flying numerous combat missions, McDivitt later became a test pilot and then an astronaut. Hear firsthand accounts of commanding Gemini 4, including the challenges of opening the hatch and the historic spacewalk. He also discusses his pivotal role as the Apollo Program Manager, navigating the terrifying emergency of Apollo 13, the risks of space travel, and personal reflections on his unique journey. This episode offers insightful and candid perspectives from a true pioneer of both aerial combat and space exploration.
An Evening with an American Great: Brigadier General Jim McDivitt
Recently, an event was held to honor Brigadier General Jim McDivitt, described as one of America’s greats. Hosted by “Old Guys and Their Airplanes” media production company, Military Tales (the YouTube channel where this video is found), the Distinguished Flying Cross Society, and Hacienda del Sol, the evening featured an interview with the General. John Mollison, part of Old Guys and Their Airplanes, introduced the event, reflecting on his own heroes being World War II fighter pilots who mastered complicated machines and served their country. McDivitt fits this description, being a Korean War fighter pilot and representing the “greatest scientific achievement of the 20th century: space travel”. The interview was conducted by Alex Wright, one of the “Friday Pilots” group, who shared Mollison’s experience of learning “we stood on the shoulders of giants at an early age”. For Wright, interviewing General McDivitt was considered a “once-in-a-lifetime event”.
The conversation began by stepping back in time to McDivitt’s arrival in Korea. He described it simply as “scary”. It was cold, and got progressively colder. Living in quonset huts, the wash basin water would freeze solid overnight. The huts themselves offered minimal insulation, being made of thin aluminum, meaning the inside temperature was barely different from the outside. A surprising detail was the lack of secrecy regarding their unit call sign; trucks around the base openly displayed “Hobo,” the call sign for their wing. McDivitt arrived around the first of November, finding Korea to be a “desolate place,” “very poor, very hilly,” with “third roads”.
During his tour, McDivitt initially flew the F-80, which he noted was the first fighter jet used in combat. His squadron was equipped with F-80s before switching to F-86s later in the war. The F-80 was fast, but didn’t need its top speed as there weren’t many MiGs to chase it. It could outrun any propeller airplane and outmaneuver prop aircraft, leading McDivitt to feel “pretty safe” from other aircraft. However, they still took on a lot of “flack” (anti-aircraft fire), resulting in many bullet holes. One F-80 in his squadron, number 555, seemed to attract flak and was covered in patches. Despite the damage it sustained, McDivitt “loved” the F-80 and described it as a “good airplane”.
He then transitioned to flying the F-86. While he flew some air-to-air combat (“big alley stuff”), it was infrequent and often “very boring,” consisting mostly of waiting for enemy aircraft that rarely showed up. He found the air-to-ground missions more exciting because he “got to shoot the guns and drop the bombs”.
McDivitt served in Korea as a Lieutenant for over half of his military career. Despite his rank, he was given, or rather inherited due to attrition, significant responsibility, becoming an “operational officer of a fighter squadron in the middle of war”. He recounted an anecdote about a more senior officer who transferred out of the fighter squadron to wing headquarters to avoid danger. In contrast, McDivitt stated that there was a time when they had enough pilots that anyone with 60 or more missions could volunteer to go home, but “nobody volunteered,” as they all wanted to stay in combat, finding it “kind of fun”. McDivitt flew a total of 145 combat missions, roughly divided between the F-80 (about 80 missions) and the F-86 (about 65 missions). His check-out in the single-seat F-86 was a rather informal process involving some briefings and then checking himself out.
He shared a humorous story about naming his F-80 “Obstinate Owl.” While on his way to Korea, he had two girlfriends. He decided to name his airplane after them, calling one “Obstinate” and the other “the Owl,” and cleverly combined them for his airplane’s name. He also noted a detail about his aircraft’s tail numbers: his F-80 was 854, and when he got an F-86 as a senior pilot, he chose one with the tail number 458.
Regarding airfields, McDivitt was fortunate to be stationed at one with a 9000-foot runway, which was beneficial for fighter-bombers carrying bombs. He described the chaotic, close-interval takeoffs where multiple aircraft would line up on the runway simultaneously. Initially taking off at three-second intervals, the squadron commander increased it to four seconds after witnessing the “scramble on the runway”.
McDivitt stayed in Korea until the armistice and was sent home relatively quickly due to his numerous combat missions. His arrival back in the U.S. was in Bangor, Maine, which he found “so cold”. He humorously recounted seeing a sign welcoming “the finest talking pictures” upon his arrival. He was stationed there for about 13 months. A memorable challenge in Maine was the extreme cold during scrambles; in December, his oxygen mask valves would freeze from his breath, making it difficult to breathe during takeoff until they learned to keep their helmets warm.
Somewhere along the line, McDivitt earned an engineering degree. He had two years of junior college before joining the Air Force. He was sent to the University of Michigan and, after being out of school for seven or eight years, found the math books unfamiliar. He taught himself calculus over a weekend by getting books from the library and working continuously until Monday morning classes. He described himself as “very good in math” and managed to get through Michigan with “all A’s”.
While at Michigan, he and his friend Ed White, also a first lieutenant, had to fly regularly out of Selfridge Air Force Base, about 75-80 miles away, to maintain their flying pay. They joked about “breakfast at Selfridge,” driving there early, finding the weather was bad, having breakfast, and driving back. He and White became “the best of friends”. Ed White was the pilot on Gemini 4 with McDivitt and was later on the Apollo 1 crew. McDivitt was the commander of the backup crew for Apollo 1.
After getting his degree, McDivitt went to Test Pilot School at Edwards Air Force Base, graduating and staying there as a test pilot for three or four years. At the time, he had “no idea” that being a test pilot would lead to being an astronaut; it was “the last thing” that crossed his mind. When astronaut selection came up, people encouraged him, suggesting it was a “good deal”. Regarding astronaut pay, McDivitt stated the “extra money was about that big,” suggesting it wasn’t much. He, along with Alan Shepard and Deke Slayton, were called to Congress to discuss astronaut pay. They all independently told Congress they should be paid the same as other military officers of their rank. As a civilian program, astronauts weren’t allowed to wear military uniforms at Nasa. McDivitt mentioned that initially, they had very little money for civilian clothes, describing themselves as a “ragged looking bunch of public servants”. His father-in-law, who ran a clothing store, provided him with a couple of black suits. The astronauts did have a deal with World Book to sell their exclusive stories, providing a lump sum divided among them, but this arrangement eventually ended.
Moving to his spaceflights, the conversation touched upon Gemini 4. McDivitt was terrified upon reaching space initially, though he corrected himself; he was thinking of an earlier, unrelated incident. A key moment on Gemini 4 involved difficulty opening the hatch. Having worked with technicians and figured out how to handle the hatch on the ground, McDivitt was able to manipulate the handle and dog mechanism to get it open despite the difficulty in space while pressurized. This was a critical task as failing to get the hatch locked properly again would result in burning up on re-entry. He successfully fiddled with it, got it open for Ed White’s spacewalk, and then managed to get it closed and locked afterward. He felt he was “probably the best expert in the world at that moment” on that specific hatch issue, noting that there were effectively no other experts. He also mentioned the plan was to throw out garbage after the spacewalk, but he decided against it, making Ed White carry it back. They learned a lot about what decisions needed to be made in flight versus on the ground.
The discussion moved to the Apollo program, focusing on the first engineering test flight involving the lunar module (LM) and command/service module (CSM). He explained the purpose of the LM, noting it wasn’t designed for re-entry, requiring them to rendezvous and redock with the CSM after lunar operations. McDivitt confirmed the Gemini 4 mission was probably about 10 days long. He recalled the doctors warning of a “good chance of dying” on such flights. After landing, he and Ed White joked about whether they were going to die, realizing they were okay.
Regarding the LM, he confirmed they stood up in it, using bungee cords hooked to their suits and the floor to keep from floating away. He mentioned the LM was made of very thin material, so thin that dropping a screwdriver on the floor on Earth would puncture it. They used thick pads during ground testing to prevent this.
McDivitt also shared a dramatic story about the Apollo 9 splashdown recovery. Recovery involved exiting the spacecraft into a life raft and being hoisted into a helicopter. Early recoveries used a “horse collar” loop, which was risky if not used correctly. Later, they used the “Billy Pugh net,” a rigid frame with netting. On his recovery, the squadron commander, who hadn’t practiced the procedure, was operating the net. The swinging net hit a scuba diver sitting on the edge of a life raft, knocking him unconscious and into the water upside down. Unable to hear well over the helicopter noise, McDivitt jumped into the other life raft to help. He attempted to pull the unconscious diver out but couldn’t bend him. Fortunately, another scuba diver jumped in and bent the unconscious man at the midpoint, allowing them to pull him out. The diver later told McDivitt he had a terrible headache but thanked him for the rescue. McDivitt quipped, “We didn’t always do things right but we made them exciting”.
After his second space flight, McDivitt was promoted to program manager. He was the program manager during the Apollo 13 emergency, which he described as “terrifying”. He explained that an oxygen tank blew up, leaving the spacecraft without oxygen and propulsion. It was a “really bad scene,” the closest they came to losing anyone in the Apollo program. They managed to use the LM to provide oxygen and use its engine for maneuvers to get the crew back. The oxygen situation involved using the LM’s liquid oxygen and relying on a small bottle of gaseous oxygen in the Command Module for re-entry. McDivitt believes he was the program manager through Apollo 14, covering missions from 10 or 11 onwards.
He also spoke about the Apollo 1 fire, which tragically killed his friend Ed White. McDivitt highlighted the extreme danger of the 100% oxygen environment in the command module, stating that anything could burn in it if heated. He emphasized that they didn’t fully realize how bad it was until after the fire and subsequently changed the environment.
Training involved procedures like altitude chamber tests where pilots would remove their masks to experience passing out, ensuring they knew the signs and what to do if it happened in space. This testing was dangerous but necessary to prevent fatal errors in flight. Despite the dangers, McDivitt found it “really fun” and described his life as turning out “great”. He characterized spaceflights as relatively straightforward from a pilot’s perspective: “You go up hopefully you don’t blow up then you’re up there for a while and you come down and hopefully you don’t burn them”. He also shared a humorous anecdote about centrifuge training involving collection devices.
Asked for advice for the younger generation, McDivitt simply said, “Don’t,” meaning don’t try to follow his exact path unless that’s genuinely what you want to do. He stressed that “this stuff happens one,” implying individuals find their own way. He also mentioned the process of evaluating fellow astronauts and his realistic assessment of who was suited for the demanding and dangerous work.
Towards the end, he shared the story of his promotion to Lieutenant Colonel, which was a “spot promotion” granted by the President.
The event concluded with McDivitt sharing his gratitude for the opportunity to speak, and the interviewer, Alex Wright, reiterating the idea of standing on the shoulders of giants, acknowledging McDivitt as an inspiration.